Wednesday, April 21, 2010

A little bit on kissing and then a little political stuff from Bob Altemeyer. LONG POST WARNING

I wrote this a while back to post at, I assume, Your Hotwives or Our Hotwives a site well worth checking out.  It really is a too long post about how our views on Brandi kissing the men she was fucking changed and how it improved the sex for her and made it more enjoyable for me.  At the same time it may also have been a step or two toward my interest in cuckolding or being cuckolded. 

Kissing her lovers, how my wife started kissing her friends:

Some years ago when my wife had first started going out on dates she found it hard to really explain to me what she wanted in a lover. Even at that point we knew that finding someone to fuck her was not that big of problem but it was and is far harder to find someone that she not only wants to fuck and wants to fuck her then we also add that  someone is right for them to become friends and lovers. She wanted to be with a man
that she enjoyed being with in and out of bed, while sex would be important and the primary reason for the relationship she also wanted, dare we say ("Dare…Dare"), a "relationship" with him in and out of bed.

Like a lot of couples we started with the idea of trying a mfm and going on to swinging (like a lot of wives Brandi did not like the idea of seeing or knowing that her husband was fucking another woman). It took a while to find the right guy and even though we started with the idea of finding the right man to just fuck without really thinking about it my wife sifted through the responses and found someone that was interesting to her, interesting in and out of bed. So we started with just the idea of a cock for her to fuck and without really thinking about it we actually were looking for a man that she could respect and like and I could get along with as well. I guess it was really her looking a bit further into finding a man, a person, rather than just a "cock".

Now to be sure for a lot of people that enjoy "swinging", "Hotwife" games the words "friendship" or "relationship" or even the term "lover" can be red flags and can cause heartburn or panic or any number of negative feelings. In our beginning that is how we felt to a point, at least that was what we were telling each other. But looking back at things it is obvious that my wife didn't just want to find a cock to slide into her, she actually wanted someone that she could talk to as well but also looking back I am not sure why or how she (we) arrived at that idea.

It was long time before my wife kissed the first man aside from me, her husband, that she had sex with as a married woman. To us like a lot of other swingers and other alternative lifestyle people kissing seemed so intimate, too intimate, my wife could fuck other men (fucking them bare back and insisting that they come in her or on her seems to come in a distant second best),  but it is okay to let other men eat her pussy, fondle her tits and ass and she could even suck their cocks but NO KISSING and no "friendship" just sex! Just fucking really since sex might include "making love". So how did the first guy that we met also be the first one
to screw my wife, what we planned on but also in a while became the first man to kiss my wife in a romantic way aside from me her hubby and also be her first "lover" as well as fuck buddy?

So we wrote Henry and we talked to Henry and at last we met Henry and we both liked him and thought he might be suitable for our first try at adding some excitement to our sex life. We didn't play that first meeting. For various reasons including him living three hours away and our first child coming along we didn't meet him again for a long time, might have been almost two years. At last we met him again and my wife had sex with
him. They fucked. We had planned on her using condoms with him but my wife got carried away and enjoyed him bareback and had him come in her pussy. No kissing!  Stop and think about that logic, let him come in your pussy and you are not on birth control but do not kiss him! The next morning after our first threesome my wife and I talked about it and after a lot of avoiding the subject directly we did face the big question.
Should we do it again! We were in agreement, we both wanted to see Henry again and we were open to trying to find another man and trying playing with a couple.

Henry lived out of our area so we were not able to see him often. We had poor luck finding a couple that we both wanted to play with. However the friendship between Henry and my wife and me was growing. Henry and my wife would chat now and then on the phone, letters once in a while and we did meet now and then and my wife and Henry had sex and I would watch some and join in some and we had great times with
him. All was going well, except I did want to play some with another woman myself but finding the right one or the right couple was difficult. My wife kept enjoying Henry bareback, no rubbers, and really enjoyed feeling him coming in her, there was some risk since she was nursing and was of course not on the pill or using any other form of birth control. We didn't think about that at the time but later we found the fact that she had
been enjoying him with that added risk of pregnancy to be exciting and she did admit years later that if she had become pregnant with his or another lover's child she (and she means we) would have kept the child.

So Henry was going to be down in a few days and Brandi was looking forward to seeing him. At this point we didn't still quite know what to call him, we didn't call him her "lover" but that wasn't all that important but it does show some of our state of mind.  Anyway I was talking to Brandi and asked her about kissing. How it was a part of sexand fun. After we beat around that subject for a while I asked her if she felt her fun with
Henry might be better if they kissed or would that be too romantic or intimate for her.  After some hesitation Brandi kind of let me know that she thought she would enjoy kissing Henry and that she did feel kissing was a natural part of having sex and that while it was intimate…it might be okay to kiss Henry if it would not bother me too much. In a roundabout way we agreed that it would be okay for my wife to kiss Henry the next time
we saw him.

A day or so later we saw Henry, I don't recall if Brandi had told him it would be okay if they kissed or if I told him ahead of time or if Brandi told him about the rule change.  Actually I am not sure how he got the news and I am not sure if we asked him if he wanted to kiss my wife. Anyway he got the word that kissing was now okay! The first kisses between them were a bit tentative, not too sensual. I had the feeling that they were feeling their way not only how they felt about adding the kissing but also wondering how I would take my wife kissing the other man she fucks besides her husband. It wasn't but moments until they were really kissing, full mouthed, lips locked, deep breathing and moans from my wife, I think Henry might have been moaning too.  Lot of lust and passion! Tongues flicking out and in. Kissing with obvious tongue play. It did set me back a bit, some shock seeing my wife kissing another man so deeply, with such passion. With such enjoyment. It was shocking and hot!

It was obvious my wife enjoyed kissing Henry and I was pretty sure that it added to Henry's arousal and passion as well. It wasn't long before I could see a change in how Henry and my wife interacted. The kissing made a difference during sex obviously but my wife and Henry now seemed a bit more flirtatious. It wasn't long until they kissed when they were not having sex, when we were out having dinner together or going someplace together. The kissing led to them acting more like a couple when they were together.

I will not lie to you and say it was no big deal to see my wife kissing Henry. It was. In some ways it was as big as deal as seeing that first time my wife grab Henry's thick cock and guide it into her pussy! Seeing my wife guiding another man's cock into her, that really told me that she wanted his cock in her, she wanted to, really wanted to fuck someone other than me, her husband! My heart was pounding so hard that first time I saw my wife welcome another man's cock into her I thought I might have a heart attack.  The kissing, seeing them kiss the first time was not quite that dramatic but it was dramatic and shift in how I saw my wife and Henry and how I saw them together. I also think that it was indeed a shift in how they saw each other. In a lot of ways my first feelings were a bit of "hurt" or even "pain". Yes we kiss family and friends. But kissing your
kids, your mother, your father, Aunt Melba is one kind of kiss. Kissing your girlfriend, you wife, your boyfriend, your husband your lover is a different kind of kiss and it means different things, it says different things to the people kissing and to anyone watching. It says a lot to a person that is a love relationship with one of the people kissing. They were kissing in a sensual and romantic way! It is very intimate!

Since it added a lot to my wife's pleasure and she took that added pleasure out on me in most pleasurable ways it didn't take me too long to get used to it. It had not taken long for Brandi to sit by Henry when we were out and to sit with him in the car when we were going some place but I felt they did a bit more flirting and touching and yes they did kiss frequently and it was any time they were together, not just when they were having sex. It was obvious to me that the sex was hotter, more passionate, more exciting for my wife.  Since her passion with Henry meant more passion with me after she had been with Henry I got to enjoy the effects of her increased excitement with Henry.

Of course once she had kissed Henry it was of course no big deal for her to kiss the next man.  After Henry we tried parties and a swing bar in Reno. Very little kissing at the swing bar and at that time there was little kissing at the parties we went to. However I noticed that guys would kiss her away from the group at parties, if they were more alone, off to the side or in a more private room. I still found it arousing to see her kissing other men in a romantic and sensual way. To this day I still find it arousing and hot to see my wife
kissing a lover or even just a fuck buddy.

Brandi assures me that she still finds kissing a lover to add a lot to the sex or the love making and she enjoys kissing the right lover or fuck buddy in front of me, in public and in private. She does tell me that having the freedom to kiss and caress and be caressed by a lover in public and in front of me adds a lot to her fun. She does enjoy the feeling of being her lover's and she enjoys the intense but different feelings she gets from
being his in private or just when the two of them are together or when I am there and she is "his" while I watch. Different feelings to her but both hot.

Political Stuff:

Robert Altemeyer has been studying Authoritarians for years and probably know as much as any person knows about them and more than most people know about them.  The link takes you to his comments on the Tea Party.  A long time ago I was a Republican including being a "Young Republican" and casting a vote for Nixon.  I learned as a YR that the "jokes" a lot of my fellow Young Republicans made were not really jokes. They hated blacks, Latinos, Asians (except Asian women) and women (except for sex and of course respecting "Mom")  I think (with deep regret) that the party has been taken over by the baser elements of America and it is a pity.  Take a look and I think you will find it very interesting (and if you are like me you see a bit of yourself in some things because we are not black and white but various shades of gray or grey).


  1. I did a copy and paste from a Word document and that didn't work. Then made it into a notepad document and tried to clean it up. Still don't like the formatting or the way the sentences flow so any ideas?

  2. Do one of the following:

    Automatically format as you type
    1.On the Tools menu, click AutoCorrect Options, and then click the AutoFormat As You Type tab.
    2.Select or clear the options you want.
    Note You can undo formatting or turn options on or off by clicking an option on the AutoCorrect Options button . Depending on the situation, the entire button may appear or the button may first appear as a small, blue box that changes to a button icon when you point to it.

    Automatically format after you type
    1.On the Format menu, click AutoFormat.
    2.To choose which types of automatic changes Microsoft Word makes, click Options, select or clear the options you want, and then click OK.
    3.Click a document type to apply the most appropriate formatting.
    4.Do one of the following:
    •To have Word automatically format the document, click AutoFormat now.
    •To review and accept or reject each change, click AutoFormat and review each change.
    Note After your document has been automatically formatted, you can use the Style Gallery to select a professional document design.

    You can also try the Justify option in Word.

    Let me know if this was helpful.


    PS - I hope i understood you correctly

  3. Sad to hear that you are no longer flying. Someday I hope to fly myself ( if i can afford it ).

    What aircraft were you flying in your glory days?

    Wishing you all the luck with your backpain.

    You are spot on about how women feel about kissing. Nonetheless Brandi seems such a sweetheart and so careful about whom she kissed. She must care for you a lot i guess. I was going through some earlier post and came across a pic of Brandi sucking "H's" cock. Is that Henry whom she kissed? And is Henry still there in your lives?
    Another great pic was about that black guy hugging Brandi ever so gently (with one hand on her back and the other on on her ass) and she seemed so eager in that pic......a classic

    Also were you guys really serious about having someone else's child? That would be a big step isnt it? with loads of ramifications for the future (although i am asking something which is now a dead topic but i would still like to know what you thought about it during that time).


    PS - Did you ever eat her after she had been with a lover?

  4. KJ: Last thing I flew for pay was the DC-10 (an interesting mix of strength and delicacy a challenge at times due to the approach speeds and runway needs). Among other things I flew for pay, Bae-146 (very fun aircraft and super easy to land), Brasila (not a good ice plane but until you get to hot leading edges using bleed air none of them really are and not very forgiving really and both it and the Bandit had in my opinion heavy control forces), Bandit, Shorts 3-60, Metro, Navajo, Senaca, a fair amount of Piper, Cessna and Beechcraft single engine aircraft. I also have time in 450 hp Stearmans (very fun and at times a bit of a challenge), some other ag planes, like the Ag Cat, Thrush and so on, Pitts Special, Super Decathlon, Citabria, Super Cub, a twin jet Spanish trainer and the Lake Buccaneer. It is expensive to learn to fly and to keep flying. I'd check out some local flying clubs or even shared ownership if you are serious.

    Henry was her first outside cock (to put it crudely) as a married woman and given time he turned into her first lover as a married woman and also the first outside sex partner she kissed (also was the first guy to enjoy her in "our" bed but not the first guy she spent the night with. I didn't feel like a cuckold at all with Henry but I did get some jealous feelings at times and the first time for us was a real eye opener and a change in the way we looked at each other as well as ourselves. Anne Lindbergh would have called it a "Sea Change"?

    Did I eat her after a lover had come in her. Actually the second time we were with Henry I nibbled, very carefully I might add, on her just her clit and the upper portion of her pussy avoiding any of Henry's come the second time we were with him. Later she enjoyed coming home hot and wet from a lover or having me nibble on her while she and her lover were hugging between sessions. Very erotic for both of us and I assume the lover's enjoyed it as well and gave them a feeling of superiority. I know I got some of those feelings when I was playing with married women.

    The short answer is that I have eaten a lot of creampies from her and her lovers. She also has had me nibble on her while a lover was in her which is another set of issues. She seems to enjoy both very much.

    Brandi getting pregnant: The idea of her being a surrogate mother was something we talked about due to our friends not being able to carry to term. She was willing but she was not looking forward to giving up the child since she really enjoyed being pregnant and the feelings she had for the baby. It would have been more than a bit stressful.

    But from the very first time she was with Henry she always enjoyed him with no protection...the bizarre thing about that is that we seemingly didn't really think about it at the time. I am sure that on some level we knew we were running a risk (we are not that stupid or dumb) but we didn't really talk about it with each other or with Henry. I mean that depending upon the time we guessed she was in her cycle I would use a rubber (and I don't really like them and she doesn't either) but she never used a rubber with Henry. But keep in mind that we didn't get to see him very often due to his living in the Bay area and us living on the Central Coast.

    Looking back I still find that so strange, okay, really bizarre actually that we did what we did in regards to the pregnancy risk with Henry.

    KJ: I will try that in a few days and see how it works. Thanks for the information!

    Looking at my pictures I have a mess of Brandi kissing various lovers and if there is any interest I will post some of them. I do find her kissing a lover to be very powerful and erotic.

  5. if your going to have sex what difference does it make if kissing is involved or not....frankly, I much prefer it when my wife does a guy bare back and he cums in her cunt.....I feel like using the word cunt today....I love it when he shoots his cum all over her and I love it when her cunt is leaking cum and I can feel it cum out of her

  6. Wow, sorry I didn't see this. One of the arguments over at some of the hotwife sites has to do with kissing. A number of swingers and hotwife fans feel that kissing is too personal and or kissing the person the wife is fucking is a rather common rule for swingers. While we started that way looking back I feel it is kind of silly. I also feel that certainly that sex is intimate...real intimacy is talking, real communication. I'd think that just fucking will not make a man a lover (a big fear of a lot of swingers is real intimacy...we had couples want to meet us but required that if we ever saw them in public that we would all pretend we didn't know each other...kind of insulting really) but talking, a sharing of minds can make a man a friend and then a lover.

    I personally find kissing to be quite erotic, both me kissing a lover and my wife kissing one of her lovers. She finds kissing to be very erotic and looks for men that enjoy kissing and can kiss well. In short...kissing her lovers makes it so much more enjoyable for my wife. That makes it more enjoyable for the both of us.

    I also enjoy a lover coming in my wife's cunt. She prefers to enjoy her lovers bare back and as I have said in the past she doesn't feel that she has been with a man until he comes in her cunt. At times I am reluctant to use the word "cunt" since Kate hated the word...Brandi on the other hand doesn't mind it at all and uses it herself but Kate getting so pissed about it made me a bit cautious about using it. I love my wife's cunt full of her lover's come, leaking out, soaking her panties, the feel of it on my fingers, the taste, the scent and of course the feeling of sloppy seconds, the best lube in addition to her own is of course a big load from a lover. Brandi enjoys being wet and full of her lover's come probably more than I enjoy her that way. She tells me that she really enjoys that feeling, the scent and she thinks that other men pick up on it since she thinks she gets flirted with more often with she is wet from a lover. She even enjoys going off to work with my sperm in her soaking her panties...says she stays turned on the rest of the day.

  7. Very interesting post.

    I just found you, but don't have time today for browsing. I'll be back later for a longer read. Thanks.


  8. OK, you had me.... till the tired old "conservatives are racists" song and dance...Fuck that.

    In this arena with the implicit undertones of BBC and etc, do you ACTUALLY ask about people's politics???

    And I call bullshit. I believe (especially years ago as you state when such Neanderthal comments were more acceptable) that again, years ago you knew one, or several people from the party of Abraham Lincoln with such telling me that all your buddies with the union label over their pure democratic hearts not a one had any kinda racist attitude?


    Not even a baggage handler? An Ex-Navy mechanic? Ever talked to a Longshoreman?

    WTF does any of that have to do with your post?

    You want to get political, go for it. But at least make it a separate post.

    I'm done now.

  9. I've know and respected some conservatives but I've also know a lot of them that used their conservatism as cover for some truly horrible beliefs. I was a young Republican in the late '60s and early'70s and that started me on my drift to the left (but not in all ways...after all I collect firearms). I found nicer talk about blacks, Latinos and Jews in the South (my father is from the South and most of his relatives are still there and I can recall visiting the South when you still had segregation) than I did in San Luis Obispo at that time with the Young Republicans.

    I've meet plenty of moronic Democrats and I've had to deal with union members that were idiots but I've met more Republican morons in recent years than Democratic ones and even idiots deserve union representation. I've never heard a union wish "their" company to go out of business, we worked hard to make concessions to try to keep companies alive but having worked for several companies that no longer exist I find that the reasons that the companies no longer exist have little to do with the union employees. Higher management made decisions that resulted in their being one less airline, we could have worked for nothing and it would not have kept the company alive.

    Yes, I've talked to longshoremen recently ( but actually when I was on the Mobile docks in the late '50s early '60s ALL the stevedores were black but it was still a pretty darn good job...strong union, didn't ask them how they felt about whites or women joining them), baggage smashers, and I've worked a lot with ex-military people, men and women...they are people...some good and some bad but most of the blacks were not anti-black and most of the women were not anti-female and strange to stay most of the white males are not any more either. Some unions worked against it, some for it. Times change.

  10. I just discovered this terrific blog. You are a very honest and very good writer, and Brandi seems like she would be wonderful to date. I couldn't agree more about kissing and intimacy. It's hard for me to see the point, if that's off limits. I'm sure you're very proud of her!

  11. Your post was insightful. We have a no kissing rule but my wife tells me afterwards that she wants so badly to kiss her lover. She only has one now. We both feel stronger that if she does kiss it would be considered cheating and way too passionate. We are always so conflicted. She wants a complete passionate, romantic experience of kissing but she know if she does that will bring her to new heights of orgasm and possible "feelings" for her lover. She does not want to start having deep feelings for him....but also wants to give herself completely to him by kissing...

    What do we do?

    Cynthia and Gregory